First Baptist Manlius

Elder John Nichols, Elder Elhanah Comstock (2nd Time)

Elder Samuel Carpenter, Brother Benjamin Pearce, Dr. John King

In early 1820 Brother James, an African, and his wife were voted letters to join another church. Elder Baker and his wife Lucy were also finally given letters to join another church “of our faith and order if he should think proper.” Six other members sought letters. Some of the requests might have been made to show support and loyalty for Elder Baker.

Elder and Mrs. Baker eventually took their memberships to the Pompey Center Baptist Church along with Elijah Weston, Thomas Gridley and Warren Scranton as noted in the 1822 minutes of the Madison Baptist Association Meeting. In the 1824 minutes of the Association Meeting, Elder Baker was listed as the Elder of the Pompey Center Church (but Elder Baker was not mentioned as Elder in a history of the Pompey Center Church.) The Church voted to give Elijah Weston a copy of his exclusion. The Church was reluctant to give letters to the other members, and voted on February 5, 1820, to deny their requests by a 12 to 0 vote.

At a Church Meeting on March 4, 1820, Elijah Weston brought forward another request for a Council signed by a number of members of the congregation. The Church did not think it best to have a Council. We do not have a copy of the request but the Church fathers became incensed by what must have been wording very critical of the Church and its actions. The Church then requested apologies from those who signed Elijah Weston’s paper. The following members acknowledged their errors.

Curiously, after giving Elder and Lucy Baker letters to join another church, almost a year later at a special meeting on December 23, 1820, the subject of hiring a preacher for 1821 came up and a motion was made to know if the church would employ Elder Baker “to preach for us.” Elder Baker was rejected again, and this time, Elder John Nichols turned against him.

On March 31, 1821, Brothers Hubbard, Cleveland and Baker (Nathan Jr.) were appointed a Committee to provide a minister and the Church voted to receive a written complaint against Brother Baker brought by Brother Nathan Baker Jr., for using bad language, personal abuse, equivocation, and falsehood.

In the early days of Church Meetings meeting times were announced as being one of the clock or two of the clock, etc. The Church never seemed to meet on the half hour. In 1822 the clerk started using the abbreviated form which we use today, i.e., two o’clock, seven o’clock, etc. Time apparently went slowly for the deceased wicked. Early 1800’s Theology said to multiply the number of all the grains of sand on earth by the number of spears of grass, then by all the leaves on the trees and this would not equal the time sinners would spend in Hell. Perhaps part of the punishment was to do the counting.

On May 12, 1821, at “one of the clock” in the afternoon at the East School House the Church and Society met to confer on the subject of hiring Elder Elhanah Comstock to preach again. Apparently the vote was positive since on May 12, 1821, it was voted that Esquire Fleming, Jonathon Ball, William Phillemore, Thomas Hubbard, and Benjamin Gates be a Committee to look for a place for Elder Comstock “to live on” as soon as they can and make a report at the next meeting. Elder Nichols was still active and was preaching and moderating meetings in 1821 but was 80 years old and needed help. There were many dissatisfied members at this time and the Church proceeded to try to settle difficulties with them. They were invited to Church meetings and their complaints were aired to the satisfaction of some and the dissatisfaction of others.

The controversy with Elijah Weston was still not settled. On June 27, 1821, at the home of Christopher Foster with Elder Nichols, Moderator, the Church took up the case of Elijah Weston again. Brother Weston spoke and said it was likely he made the contradictory statements which witnesses said he did, but excused them as the result of misspeaking himself. He did not blame the Church and thought they were correct in excluding him because of the large number of witnesses against him. He was, however, not sensible of doing anything wrong, knowingly, and did not acknowledge the facts for which he was excluded. The Church voted again on restoring Elijah Weston to membership. Five were in favor, three against restoration, three did not decide, and the sisters, forfeiting one of their last chances for a meaningful vote in the nineteenth century, did not choose to declare their minds.

On July 7, 1821, the Church discussed the problems of Joseph Williams. Joseph Williams excused himself for what he had said at a previous meeting and pleaded that he considered himself not in his right mind at that meeting. The Brethren were asked what they thought about Brother Williams state of mind at that time and they pretty generally answered that they had thought him rational and in a better state of mind than usual.

At the same meeting the Church finally voted to have a Council. It was scheduled for ten of the clock in the forenoon at the house of Brother James Jobs on July 18, 1821. This was the beginning of a series of Councils that were set up to settle some of the difficulties that arose because of the treatment of Elder Baker, Elijah Weston, and the actions of the Church that were the cause of so many aggrieved and dissatisfied members.

Brothers Ball, Millard, and Weston (Nathan) were appointed to make statements to the Council and answer questions. There is no record of the statements made by the aggrieved parties to the Council but only of resolutions made by the Council and an explanation of its recommendations.

The Council met as scheduled. Present were Elders Beckworth and Lane who invited Brothers Eliazar Savage and Dulley Lamb “to take a seat and sit with us in Council.” Elder Lane prayed, after which the Council proceeded to an investigation of the difficulties between the Church and the Brethren who were aggrieved, and then retired for deliberation. When the deliberations were completed the Council gave the report which was included in the Church minutes and copied here:

1st. Resolved that this Council be a Confidential one while present for consultation.

2nd. Resolved that the authority of the Church according to the Bible is invested in the hands of the brethren. See I Cor. 14:34, I Tim. 2:11-12, I Pet. 3:1. (I Corinthians 11:34: “Let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.” 1 Timothy:11-12: “Let the women learn in silence with all subjection, and I suffer not a woman to teach not to usurp authority over the men, but to be in silences.” 1Peter 3:1: “Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if they obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by conversation of the wives.”) but we firmly believe the Sisters should be consulted in all matters of discipline and their gifts promoted in covenant meetings and all other religious conferences.

3rd. Resolve that the Council was unanimously satisfied with the confessions of the Church relative to the allegation against them in showing a hard ungospel Spirit and are of the opinion that the grieved brethren ought to pass it satisfied.

4th. Resolved that the Council is of the opinion that the Church did wrong in refusing to grant the first request of the grieved brethren in calling for a Council and that the grieved brethren were also very essentially wrong in laying that writing before the Church called a remonstrance or in other words that paper containing their grief with the Church respecting their labour with Brother Elijah Weston.

5th. Resolved that the Council be of the opinion that the implication of the Church against Br. Elijah Weston of wilful deception of his treatment to Sister Burse was not provable from evidence laid before the Council.

The evidence of Sister Burse was satisfactory to the Council that Brother Elijah Weston was not guilty of that criminality in deceiving her as the Church had attributed to him.

The Council have also a conviction the Church were imprudent and lack wisdom in the management of difficulty whereas Brother Elijah Weston and Sister Burse had parted by a mutual agreement which we think is a Strong indication in fact that Sister Burse held not Brother Elijah Weston as having deceived her by saying we part in peace and even proceeded in giving him advice in the choice of a companion having also confessed previously to Brothers Williams and Gridley and now to the Council that she could travel in Church fellowship with Brother Elijah Weston were it not for certain reports.

We have further concluded that the conduct of Brother Weston was exceeding imprudent and unbecoming a Deacon in the Church of Christ a Christian and a Father in his unguarded observations to Sister Burse and then with whom he conversed on this Subject and this he had ought to confess heartily to his brethren before they can restore him. We now think as a Council that the Church ought to restore Brother Elijah Weston if he is willing to concede to this duty.

6th. Resolved that the Council are of the opinion that the Church had cause to disfellowship those grieved Brethren for extending their fellowship to Brother Elijah Weston while excluded from the body for we consider there were Gospel means by which those grieved Brethren might have obtained satisfaction and Brother Elijah Weston be restored although we thus Judge we Still deem the Church were wrong in not joining with them in mutual Council.

7th. As it respects the grievance of the Church towards the grieved brethren the Council are of the opinion they did wrong in not fulfilling their Covenant obligation and also for calling a Council without consulting their brethren notwithstanding their former opposition in being denied a mutual Council. For our opinion concerning those grieved brethren opposing the acts of the Church in the exclusion of Brother Elijah Weston we refer you to our 6th Article.

Dear Brethren in view of the whole our hearts feel pained for you. We can truly say as Paul said on quite another occasion, Our hearts desire and prayer unto God is that you the true Israel of God may be Saved from all your afflictions and restore to you all the joys of your past peace and consolation in the Holy Ghost.

By Order of the Council — John Peck, Moderator
John R. Dodge, Scribe

It was surprising that the first item for deliberation was on the subject of Sisters voting in meetings. There had been no indication that this was a problem in the local Pompey and Manlius Baptist Church. Apparently, the Elders and leaders of the surrounding Baptist churches, as well as Elder Baker, were dissatisfied and took this opportunity for voicing their objections.

On August 4, 1821, at the West School House with Brother Millard as Moderator, the report of the July 18, 1821, Council was taken up and accepted by the Church with no dissensions. It was again time for the Madison Association Meeting. Elder Nichols and Deacon Jacob Cleveland were sent as Church messengers this year (1821). Brothers Ball, Millard and Jobs were appointed to assist in making out the letter to the Association.

On September 15, 1821, the Church convened for a Covenant Meeting. The undaunted Elijah Weston came forward and owned in a general way that he was a fallible creature and often wrong but did not appear to own or confess one thing for which he had been excluded from membership. The question of satisfaction with Brother Weston’s Statement was put to the Church and four men and five women (9 votes) said satisfied and seven men and eight women (15 votes) declared unsatisfied. Women were still voting despite the advice of Council that they should not.

Then the Church, in two different meetings, voted to acknowledge and confess all the wrongs which the Council considered the Church to be guilty of. The vote was 36 yes, 0 no, just after allowing women to vote on Elijah Weston’s guilt.

Because of the unhappy times suffered by the congregation, on September 15, 1821, the Church inquired as to the state of the members minds as to their union and fellowship, and in general they appeared to be in a comfortable union. (One of the two words used to describe earlier meetings, love and union, was back - “union” – but as yet, not “love.) The Clerk wrote that “after this was got through with” Elder Dodge and Brethren Peck, Chase and Hough from the Pompey Hill Church joined the meeting to discuss further the case of Elijah Weston. After much conversation Elijah Weston again rose and spoke on the subject of his sins. He acknowledged he had been exceeding wrong in his conduct with Sister Burse and in what he said to other members about it, and in making hard speeches to the Church and about the Church and individual members. After further apologies the Church voted to restore Elijah Weston. The Clerk wrote that “the vote on his restoration appeared to be about as follows (viz) fifteen in favor of his restoration, part of them, however, with a burden, three against it.” A number did not decide either way. There was no list of voters and we do not know if women participated in the voting. Now that he was restored to membership, the Church gave Brother Weston a letter to join another Church of “our faith and order.” Other still aggrieved members asked for letters but their request was denied for the present. On November 8, 1821, the Church voted for a day of fasting and prayer for the next Saturday at the East School House.

On November 17, 1821, Elder Nichols examined the state of the minds of members respecting Communion on the first Lord’s Day in December and all present manifested a willingness to partake except Brothers Baker and Elijah Weston. Elder Nichols verbal contract to serve the Church was renewed “until such time as God in his providence shall order otherwise.” A vote was taken. It was unanimous and the offer was accepted by Elder Nichols.

The Church voted to have a Prayer Meeting (in addition to its Covenant Meeting) the Thursday before the stated Church Meeting in each month at one of the clock in the afternoon at places as shall be agreed on from time to time. This was the first mention of a scheduled Prayer Meeting. It started as a monthly exercise but later became weekly and it lasted as an institution of the Church until the late 1900’s.

The use of musical instruments in Churches in those days was sometimes frowned upon. It was proposed that a Bass Viol or Tenor Viol be used in the meetings and every member present agreed but Brother Ball and he said it would be a burden to him. The Clerk did not report whether the Viols were played or not. At a stated Church Meeting on December 1, 1821, at the home of Brother Hubbard, twenty members present were said to have had a “very comfortable” meeting prepatory to communion.

The good feeling did not last and in late 1821 and early 1822 the whole Elijah Weston, Elder Baker controversy reached the boiling point again. At a special Church Meeting on December 15, 1821, Brother Gridley was allowed to bare his grievances toward the Church. He felt that Elijah Weston was excluded wrongly from the Church, and that after his restoration the Church was again wrong in not communing with him. His final recorded words in the church were "Now Brethren, I am exceedingly tired with you and you may withdraw the Hand of Fellowship from me if you will or if you please.” Sister Gridley was equally disgruntled and charged the Church with a hard spirit for not communing with Brother Elijah Weston.

On December 22, 1821, at the West School House, the relationship between the Church and Elder Baker deteriorated further. On August 26, 1820, the Church had voted satisfied with Elder Baker’s letter respecting his signing of Elijah Weston’s paper. However, Elder Baker had since informed the Church he did not make any confession in the letter, and did not intend to be misunderstood, and that he had a right to extend fellowship to Elijah Weston.

The Church acknowledged its error in voting satisfied with Elder Baker and reconsidered its vote. The Church also voted to exclude Brother Stanton for signing Elijah Weston’s paper and for a break of covenant obligations.

At the January 5, 1822, stated Church meeting, the Church agreed to hear Elder Baker’s complaint against the Church for passing a certain vote on December 22, 1821, and for not meeting him according to agreement. The Church voted itself wrong for not meeting with Elder Baker. Elder Baker explained that he fellowshipt with Elijah Weston after he was separated from the Church because to him it meant merely that he still believed him to be a Christian. Elder Baker did not fellowship him in the Church Communion and travel, nor did he ask him to pray while thus excluded. In consequence, the Church voted satisfied with Elder Baker for signing Brother Weston’s paper.

At a Special Church Meeting on January 12, 1822, the next controversy to upset the Church was a report that Elder Dodge, Clerk of the Council, kept some papers which allegedly belonged to the Church and would not return them. He also alledgedly said and did some unpleasant things at a September 15, 1821, Church Meeting that were previously unreported by the Clerk. There was a also a purge of the Church membership with Thomas and Mrs. Gridley, James Jobs and wife, Mabel Foster, Christopher Foster, Augustus Foster and Betsy Williams, dismissed for offenses ranging from failure to keep their travels with the Church according to Covenant and Gospel obligations, for speaking hard against the Church and individual members, and in the case of Betsy Williams for an additional charge that the Church was wickedly joining with the wicked world in hypocrisy against herself and her family. The Clerk was voted to give notice to the above persons of their exclusion by letter, and the reasons for the exclusion.

On February 4, 1822, the Church appointed Elder Nichols and Brothers Millard and Weston (Nathan) to visit Elder John Dodge and tell him of the complaints of the Pompey and Manlius Church and receive his answer. They were to agree with Elder Dodge if he asked for a Council to moderate the dispute. The Committee was also requested to send a letter to the Pompey Center Baptist Church “wherein we express our grief that they should receive members of our Church without letters of recommendation and from those with whom the Church was laboring.” To satisfy the Pompey and Manlius Church they would have to reconsider the vote by which they received said members and place them again out of their Church. Again the Committee was charged to agree with the Pompey Center Baptist Church if they wanted a Council to settle their dispute. They were then to arrange the time and place and the membership of the Council.

The Committee that visited Elder Dodge thought they had an agreement for when asked if he considered it a settlement, Elder Dodge said “I suppose so.” The next day he told a Church Meeting in Pompey Hill that he would not abide by the alleged settlement. In the absence of an agreement with Elder Dodge and at the instance of the Baptist Churches of Pompey and Manlius and Pompey Center, and Elder Nathan Baker, a Council was called for February 27, 28, and 29, 1822, at the West School House in Pompey. The results were recorded by Nathan Weston, the Clerk of the Pompey and Manlius Church:

The Council convened at the instance of the Baptist Churches of Pompey & Manlius & Pompey Center and Elder Nathan Baker February 27, 28, 29, 1822, at the West School House in Pompey. After mature deliberation on all the subjects laid before them and endeavoring to weigh the whole in the balance of the sanctuary & unanimous in the following Result.
1st. The complaint of Pompey & Manlius Church against Pompey Center Church for receiving their members without letters of recommendation and dismission & even while those members were under censure. Unanimously Resolved that the Pompey & Manlius Church have cause of grief with Pompey Center Church for receiving their members as they did & that the present set up is wrong & injurious to the union & fellowship of Sister Churches & that no Church should act under such circumstances without advice of Council.

2nd The complaint of Pompey & Manlius Church against Elder John R. Dodge…1st For retaining papers laid before a Council of which he was Clerk that the Church challenged after the Council was dissolved. Resolved unanimously that there appears no cause of grief with Brother Dodge for not giving up the papers to the order of Church as it appears those papers were furnished by the Church expressly for the Council and that Brother Dodge gave them the privilege of copying those papers & said he would give them up if he could with propriety. 2nd. Resolved unanimously that the Church had no ground to accuse Brother Dodge with misusing the Moderator when he introduced the business on which he was sent by his own Church.

3rd. Resolved unanimously that Brother Dodge after introducing his business into the Church disregarded the order of the Gospel in rising in Opposition to the Moderator & saying to a Brother you have a right to speak you may speak when the Brother had just been told by the Moderator he was not in order but should be heard in his place.

4th. Resolved unanimously that the rebukes Brother Dodge gave the Church & his telling them what they aught to give a Minister in the event of their obtaining one as a compensation was improper and reprehensible.

5th. Resolved unanimously that Brother Dodge’s reply to Elder Nichols – Don’t you know you are wrong – was disrespectful and censurable.

6th. Resolved unanimously that Brother Dodge’s treatment of Brother Elijah Weston & Sister Burse’s Case at the same Church meeting was also wrong and calculated to wound both the feelings of the Church & Sister Burse. Charging the Church with partiality & Sister Burse with being full of prejudice that an acknowledgement is due from Brother Dodge to the Church on the above particulars.

Elder Nathan Baker’s complaint against Pompey & Manlius Church for their ungospel proceedings against him in treating him as out of fellowship without cause or trials…
1st. Resolved unanimously that the Church unjustly accused Elder Baker of signing a paper in common with a number of others said to be circulated by Elijah Weston that he did not sign the article to which a number of names were annexed in favor of Elijah Weston but was a separate article to which he assigned his own name expressing a wish for a Council.

2nd. Resolved unanimously that the act of the Church declaring Elder Baker out of their fellowship for signing the above note referred to was not formed in justice nor proceeded with gospel measures which is a violation of divine rule. That their treatment towards him in excluding him & than restoring him after he had joined another church & also for treating him with indifference and neglect from time to time is inconsistent with the duty of a Church of Jesus Christ towards one of his public servants.

On the conduct & discipline of the Pompey & Manlius Church as brought before this Council by the Pompey Center Church & Elder Baker as a ground of dissatisfaction with the Church..

1st. Resolved unanimously that there is just cause of complaint that the Church in May 13, 1817, past a law giving Sisters the same authority in the government of the Church as Brethren which is in direct opposition to the law of Christ and in continuing to practice accordingly even over the advice of an ecclesiastical Council and their own agreement to correct their error as advised by Council.

2nd. Resolved unanimously that in our opinion public offenses aught to be publicly confessed & that the vote of the Church expressing a different sentiment is inconsistent with the spirit and tenor of the Gospel.

3rd. Resolved unanimously that the neglect of the Church to reprove Brother Ball for saying that Brother Weston had lied was wrong & that his communing with him after Brother Weston had brought a complaint against him more especially when Brother Ball had violated his own agreement to abide the decision of the Council was contrary to gospel order.

4th. Resolved unanimously that the proceedings of the Church with those members noticed to this Council as not walking with the Church but eventually rejected from their fellowship has been unskillful & unscriptural & calculated to weaken & scatter the flock of God and also to extinguish that light which a Church in gospel order reflects on those around it. That members were voted out of fellowship including their former Pastor for manifesting dissatisfaction in a case where they thought a Brother was improperly excluded & held out of the Church. That complaints were abruptly & irregularly admitted into the Church against a member from persons of the world instead of applying the rule of the Gospel in a proper manner to halting Brethren & removing stumbling blocks out of the way. Frequent entreaties were used saying “go with us, we wish you to come to the table we will have no difficulty with you if you will come to communion,” manifesting in this course the want of a conscientious regard to divine directions. In view of the present State of the Church, this Council is unanimous of the opinion that this Church is not a proper situation to receive the ordinances of the Gospel but it is the duty of this Church to correct their irregular proceedings & their unscriptural acts & return to their first love.

Resolved unanimously that it is the duty of Pompey Center Church to acknowledge to the Pompey & Manlius Church that they prematurely & improperly proceeded against her & in receiving her members without letters and in declaring a Sister Church out of fellowship without first taking measures to point out her wrongs and reclaim her.

Resolved unanimously that it is the duty of the Pompey & Manlius Church to confess their ungospel treatment of Elder Baker & to those members they have excluded.

Resolved unanimously that those members who have gone from Pompey & Manlius Church & joined Pompey Center Church as far as they have neglected their duty to the Church they have left & for the manner of their leaving the Church aught to confess their wrongs.

Resolved unanimously that Pompey & Manlius Church is worthy of censure for evidently attempting to injure Elder Dodge by charging him with more than was proved accusing him with saying “I fear by staying longer I shall be as bad as you” & that the Church aught to acknowledge their wrong to him.

The whole is submitted & accompanied with the prayers of the Council that it may be accepted with united desires that it may prove under the blessing of God for the promotion of the peace of Jerusalem & the glory of God.

Signed in behalf of the Council
Obed L. Warren Moderator
Eliada Blakesly Clerk

Although on some points the Council supported the actions of the Pompey and Manlius Church, in general their report was a stinging rebuke to the leaders and membership of the Church. At a special Church Meeting on March 14, 1822, at the East School House with Brother Millard as the Moderator, the Church examined the charges brought against it by the Council and by vote confessed its guilt of all of them. The confessions and votes and plans for correcting certain abuses were heard by Elder Beckworth and Brother Breed and both agreed that, in their opinion, the confessions were equal to what the reports of Council required. The Pompey and Manlius Baptist Church in turn received and accepted the confession of the Pompey Center Church of wrongly accepting its members without proper letters of recommendation. The Church also voted to reconsider its vote of May 31, 1817, which gave Sisters an equal share in the government of the Church, and at the same time stated that member’s confessions need to be made in Church only.

Apologies from the Church were accepted at later meetings by members who had been wronged or excluded from membership according to the Council, i.e. the Gridleys, Fosters, Sister Williams, Brother Stanton, Brother Jobs, and Brother Foster. Brother Jobs and others apologized to Brother Weston.

Elder Dodge, while supported on some issues, was rebuked on others. For those actions and words for which he was found guilty, he informed the Clerk Nathan Weston, that he was sorry for everything he had said that had hurt the Pompey and Manlius Church’s feelings.

In May, 1822, interest appeared to be growing in building a church. Elder Baker’s advice against building a church in the village was no longer viable, since all of the major denominations had already built churches or were in the process of doing so. It is likely that not having a church home may have resulted in stifling the growth of the Baptist Congregation because of possibly crowded conditions and lack of a religious atmosphere in the schoolrooms of the area.

The need for a church home had been mentioned briefly in 1814 and 1817. Five years later on May 18, 1822, the Church met to consider a proposal from a conference of Protestant Churches in Manlius about forming a Church or Society or building a Meeting House or “something of the kind.” Two members were for the proposal, four were against, and two did not declare. The proposal came at a time when the Episcopalians had already built a church (1813), as had the Presbyterians (1819) and the Methodist’s building was in progress (completed in 1822). It seemed to be too late for a proposal of this kind, and the possibility that all or some of the denominations could get along in one group seemed unlikely.

On May 19, 1822, the Lord’s Day, the Church agreed to meet on May 30, 1822, at one of the clock in the afternoon to see about building a Meeting House. The minds of the Church were taken to know who was for building a Meeting House at Hemlock Hollow. Six men voted for it, and four against. Then the vote was put to the Church and Society together (women voting) and nine were for building and nine were against it. The Church then agreed to meet some inhabitants of Hemlock Hollow later, but no mention was made of the meeting.

On August 3, 1822, at a stated Church Meeting in the East School House, Elders Cooley, Carpenter, and Dr. Petit decided to have another Council. Elder Cooley was voted Moderator. Elder Warren was present but declined “taking a seat” with the others. They voted to act as a Council but changed their minds and no business was done.

On the Lord’s Day, August 4, 1822, the Pompey and Manlius Church agreed for themselves, along with Elder Baker for himself, and in behalf of the Pompey Center Baptist Church to invite a few of the brethren that composed the last Council and some others to meet on September 4, 1822, at Elder Baker’s house at 9 o’clock in the forenoon. They were to see how well the advice of the Council had been complied with. Those invited were Elders Warren, Kendrick, Cooley, J. and N. Peck, Carpenter, Beckworth, and Brothers Dr. Petit and Parker. Brothers Weston, Hubbard, Millard and Ball were appointed by the Pompey and Manlius Church to speak and answer questions before the Council. Unfortunately there was no report in the Church Minutes of the September 4, 1822 Council.

At a stated meeting on October 5, 1822, at the East School House, with Jacob Cleveland as Moderator, the Church took up the report of the September 4, 1822, Council. There were nine brothers and fifteen sisters present. The members were apparently feeling rebellious and all nine brothers and fourteen of the fifteen sisters declined the report. Sister Crowell appeared not to have made up her mind. What was decided and what was rejected by the church is not known. Apparently the church was pleased with its action, because the members, after expressing their minds as to Church Fellowship, found an agreeable union among the participants.

Although there were future Councils reported (for the trial of Brother Pearce and the ordinations of Brother Morton and Brother Devoll), this was the last recorded use of a Council to settle the internal difficulties of the Pompey and Manlius Baptist Church and Society. This was also the end of a very difficult time for the Church. The Elijah Weston affair and all of its consequences (i.e., the quarrels between members, between members and Elder Baker and the need for outside intervention) was discussed and fought over in at least fifty Church meetings. This undoubtedly weakened the Church and kept it from its real mission in Manlius.

Names are spelled as in the Church minutes differently in different places. William Phillermore, Phellermore, Philemore and Fillmore are the same person.

The Church had been incorporated in 1810, but apparently had failed to take the necessary steps to keep the incorporation current. On Saturday, December 14, 1822, the Church met in the Old School House and proceeded to re-incorporate. The event is described in a copy of the minutes.

Minutes taken at a meeting held at the Old School House, so called, for the support of a religious incorporation on Saturday, December 14, 1822, (where) by a plurality of voices choose (chose) William Phillemore, Benjamin Potter, Willoby Millard, and Nathan Weston as Trustees for said incorporation. That the naming of said corporation be the Baptist Church and Society in Pompey and Manlius.”
William Philemore, Moderator
Nathan Weston, Clerk

 

William Phillemore and Nathan Weston took the written instrument of incorporation (minutes of the meeting) to the Onondaga County Courthouse on January 24, 1823, and it was allowed to be recorded, but the recording was not done until January 16, 1829. (The Church has a copy of the instrument of incorporation.)

The Church then followed up the election of Trustees with an assignment of term lengths. According to the report Willoby Millard and Nathan Weston were drawn at the first class, Benjamin Potter and William Fillmore at the second, and John Hatch at the third. This meant that Millard and Weston had one year terms, Potter and Fillmore two years each and John Hatch three years. The Incorporation and the establishment of a Board of Trustees, which met regularly from this point on, were important steps which made possible the building of a church in 1828. On January 24, 1823, Nathan Weston and William Fillmore took the written and signed instrument to the County Clerk R.S. Hebs and it was belatedly recorded on January 16, 1829.

With all the business involved with the incorporation of the Church, the election of Trustees, and the impending building of a new church, the congregation found it necessary to keep a second set of records. The first Book of Records continued to record membership information, problems with members, baptisms, reports of Covenant meetings, and transfers of letters, essentially the work of the Deacons. The new record book recorded some of the business side of the church, i.e. the incorporation, the building of the new church, annual reports, election of officers, calling of ministers, treasurer’s reports, and early reports from the Board of Trustees. There were now two different Clerks. Nathan Weston continued recording information in the First Book until 1825. There were several short term Clerks for the second book, including Azariah Smith. The Clerk of the business related Book was also designated Clerk of the annual meeting. In 1832 Hiram Smith took over as Clerk and continued until December 8, 1890. Later he was also Clerk of the First Book.

Much later at a Special Church Meeting on September 1, 1823, at the house of Jonathon Jones, the Church voted to send the letter prepared by the Clerk to the Madison Association and with it a statement drawn up with reasons assigned why the Church could not accept the report of the Council of September 4, 1822.
At the Stated Church Meeting on October 7, 1823, it was reported that several visits to wayward members had been made. Among the backsliders was Deacon Cleveland, who owned that he had drank more than he aught at different times but did not remember having been helped into his wagon by Brother Fillemore. (This was not Deacon Cleveland’s first problem. Earlier he had been chastened for selling eggs on the Sabbath.)

There was no mention in the minutes of Elder Samuel Carpenter being formally hired as Elder of the Manlius and Pompey Baptist Church. The Church was acquainted with him since he served on the Councils of August 3, 1822, and September 4, 1822, as a representative of the Fabius Church. He had been Elder of the First Baptist Church of Fabius for six months starting in November of 1822. (Difficulties in paying its Elders was not limited to the Pompey and Manlius Baptist Church. The Fabius Church paid Elder Carpenter – at least in part – with wheat at $1.00 a bushel, corn and rye at 50 cents a bushel, and other articles of produce in proportion.)

On November 1st, 1823, at the home of Brother Hubbard, the Pompey and Manlius Baptist Church voted to receive Elder Samuel Carpenter and his wife Rhoda into the Church. Brothers Ball and Hubbard were to see to Elder Carpenter’s wants respecting a living and to try to have them supplied.

On Wednesday, November 12, 1823, a Committee of members, Brothers Millard, Ball, Phillemore and Weston (Nathan) was appointed to meet with a Committee from the Pompey Center Church and a Committee from the Madison Association at Brother Scranton’s home. After much conversation a settlement was not effected between the churches. The Committee from the Association found they could not find in particular what the two Churches were at odds about.

On November 29, 1823, another Committee (Elders Carpenter and Nichols, Brothers Millard, Phillemore, Ball, Weston and Jones) was selected to meet at Brother Root’s home on December 10, 1823, with a Committee from the Pompey Center Church to again try to effect a settlement between the two Churches. Elder Baker was appointed the Moderator. Warren Scranton (now a member of the Pompey Center Church) was appointed Clerk for the Pompey Center Church and Nathan Weston Clerk for the Pompey and Manlius Church. The difficulty between the two churches was “considerably conversed.” (Pompey Center accepting members from the Pompey and Manlius Church without letters of recommendation from the latter Church.) The two Churches unanimously came to the following result: (viz.)

We the Committees from both Churches this day agree that all difficulties that have existed between the two Churches this day are settled and never more to be called in question if the said two Churches agree and ratify the said agreement made by their Committees.
Signed Warren Scranton, Clerk
Nathan Weston, Clerk

The Pompey Center Church ratified the agreement on December 13, 1823, and the Pompey and Manlius Church did the same on December 14, 1823, and that was the end of the controversy between the two Churches.

At a special Church Meeting at the East School House on February 28, 1824, the Church voted that for several reasons (not given) to agree that they do not depend on Elder Samuel Carpenter “to supply them with preaching after today.” Brothers Ball and Hubbard were to inform Elder Carpenter of the vote. The Church voted to try to have as much preaching as possible and appointed Brothers Weston, Hubbard and Jones to try to get a supply of the same. At the same meeting, ironically, the Church voted that the Church had come to an end of labors with Brother Nathan Baker.

Elder Carpenter’s time as Elder in the Pompey and Manlius Baptist Church turned out to be a short and unfortunate one for him. No doubt his dismissal was prompted by his experiences with Brother Nathan Baker, the third Nathan Baker to be mentioned in the minutes. (He must have been from another branch of the family since Nathan Baker Jr. was too young in 1821, 28 years of age, to have had a son old enough to be as bad as the third Nathan Baker turned out to be.) Brother Nathan Baker was, however, a member of the Church. Brother Nathan Baker, Jr., brought charges against him on March 13, 1821, for using bad language, personal abuse, equivocation and falsehood. The Church examined the charges on May 5, 1821, and found them unstubstantiated. By 1824, however, Brother Nathan Baker appeared to be in more serious trouble. The Church voted to admonish him by letter because of his long absence from the Church, something he said to Sister Rowe, and for disorderly walking.

On February 28, 1824, the Church voted that it had come to the end of labor with Brother Nathan Baker. On March 6, 1824, the congregation found an agreeable union in the Church and voted a letter of recommendation to Elder Carpenter and his wife. On April 3, 1824, at a Stated Church Meeting Brother Nathan Baker appeared. He stated as a reason for his absence a difficulty with Elder Carpenter. (Apparently Elder Carpenter borrowed some money from Nathan Baker, or owed him some money for another reason.) The Church questioned his sueing Elder Carpenter. Brother Baker said he did it because of his own poverty. Brother Phillemore stated in evidence that Brother Baker had sworn out an execution (a legal writ) against Elder Caprenter and took his horse and wagon and said publicly he should not have done it if he thought Elder Carpenter was an honest man and intended to pay him. (Whether in fact Elder Caprenter was honest or dishonest was not determined.) Brother Baker admitted playing dice in Manlius, quarreling with a man at Watson’s, with a second man in the road, and with a third man at the Cazenovia gate. He denied swearing while quarreling, however. After more conversation he acknowledged he was wrong in what he had done and that he was sorry. The Church seemed reluctant to censure Brother Baker and voted satisfaction with his confessions if he would apologize to Elder Carpenter and on Sunday, April 4, 1824, he made an acknowledgement in public. On June 5, 1824, at a Stated Church Meeting, the case of Nathan Baker was re-opened. The Church voted to withdraw the hand of fellowship from Nathan Baker, because he had absented himself from the Church for almost twelve months. In addition, Gerry Cole and Ezekial Fox testified that Nathan Baker had quarreled with Mr. Buck at Foxes Tavern and damned him and said he would give him a flogging if it were not for the law. Instead of proving the sincerity of his confession by good conduct, he had gone off and left his creditors to suffer the large sums of money he owed them. He left his bondsman, Peter Peed, to suffer the consequences of a lawsuit of defamation, and he had not confessed to Elder Carpenter as promised and more.

At a Stated Church Meeting on October 2, 1824, with Elder Nichols as Moderator, Jacob Cleveland, now called Brother (apparently he was no longer a Deacon), was again found in trouble with the Church. He now admitted he had been wrong in drinking too much and also wrong in his mind, but now had left off drinking any Spirits for two or three months. The Church voted that they were satisfied but required him to make a public confession on the Lord’s Day, October 3, 1824, which he did.

At a Stated Church Meeting on July 31, 1824, with Elder Nicholas as Moderator, Brother Benjamin Pearce was voted a member of the Church by letter and experience. Later, in September, 1824, Brother Pearce and Willoby Millard were appointed as Church Delegates to the Madison Association Meeting in Homer. By April 2, 1825, Brother Pearce began to act frequently as the Moderator of the Church Meetings, a responsibility given mostly to Elders preaching in the Church. At a Special Meeting on April 23, 1825, the Church voted to call Brother Pearce to “preach with us once a month” and became the fourth part-time preacher of the Church. (He was Licensed in 1830.) There was talk of calling Brother Pearce to ordination, but he requested a postponement, and the Church voted to let the matter drop for the present.

At the same April 23, 1825, meeting the Church finally bowed to the will of the Church Council and Elder Baker, and in adopting rules of regulating Church Meetings, withdrew the right of women to have a meaningful vote. There was no record how the Church voted on this change in the voting rules. The rules were as follows:

1. As soon as there is a sufficient number to do business (number not mentioned), the Clerk calls the attention of the Church to open the meeting by a prayer.
2. The Clerk calls for the nomination of a moderator.
3. The Moderator is to keep complete order in the meeting. Every member shall be silent when the Moderator requires it. The Moderator shall endeavor to keep the attention of the Church to the business of the meeting and if any member departs from the subject under consideration or unnecessarily consumes the time, it is the duty of the Moderator to call him to order. (The member can appeal the call of the Moderator.)
4. As soon as a question is fully and fairly examined, the Moderator (after it is motioned and seconded) shall put the Vote on the subject first to the Brothers (by whose votes the case is to be decided) and then to the Sisters. Yet it is the duty of the Church to take as much pain to satisfy the mind of a Sister as of a Brother and that Sisters have equal rights to ask questions of the Brothers.
5. All Church Meetings are to be concluded by prayer.
6. No member has a right to leave the meeting before it is concluded with out first obtaining leave of the Moderator of the Church.

On September 3, 1825, Elder John Nichols, Brothers Pearce and Ball were nominated to represent the Church at the 1825 Madison Association Meeting. Brother Pearce was now about to be called to ordination by the Manlius and Pompey Baptist Church. He requested and was granted a postponement. The Church also voted that it wished to have a meeting house if the place, model and size could be agreed upon.

Apparently the Church and Elder Baker were still friendly. The Church voted to have a religious meeting at his home in October, 1825. At a Stated Church Meeting on February 4, 1826, with Brother Benjamin Pearce as Moderator, the Church again voted to let the case of calling Brother Pearce for ordination drop.

Dr. John King was a physician originally residing in Delphi. He experienced religion in 1816, but because of a disagreement with Elder Warren of the Delphi Baptist Church, united with the Baptist Church in Cazenovia and was baptized by Elder John Peck. He received a license to preach from the Cazenovia church and was asked to supply their pulpit. He consented so far as he could while still practicing medicine. In 1824 Dr. King, out of a sense of duty, discontinued his medical practice and devoted himself completely to the ministry of the Gospel. The Pompey Center Church then called him as a pastor. When he accepted, the Church called an Ecclesiastical Council to examine and ordain him if they found him worthy. Brother King was ordained and became Elder King and served the Pompey Center Church until the next spring when his health failed. He resigned his pastorate and moved away from Pompey.

In 1826 Elder Nichols and Brother Pearce were active and were joined by a fifth part-time preacher, Doctor John King, six years after he was first considered. Elder King moderated Church meetings, administered baptisms, and shared in the preaching duties. He was not mentioned after 1826. It was noted that he served without pay.

Elder Baker was not mentioned again in the Church records. Lucy Baker died on May 9, 1832, at the age of 70. Elder Nathan Baker died on October 20, 1836, at age 76 in Middlebury, Genesee County, New York. (Middlebury is not listed on current (1999) New York State maps.)